Preface
(I)
A friend, who seems to have had a good grasp of philosophy (at least as a student), posted something about Nietzsche and Plato, and the way they think of morality in the society, so to speak, "Priority of Nobles over Slaves". I asked him why and how he got convinced of such a thing, and he posted some explanation of the idea.
(II)
For the last 2 days, I was thinking of a new idea to write about. Um.... how is a simple discussion about the above subject? this post, and probably few later posts, will be dedicated to this matter. then, if you are eager to follow the debate, read his 2 posts before you continue: his 1st post, his 2nd post.
(III)
As you (and I) well know, too many philosophers and intellectuals have discussed such matters throughout history, and a very extensive body of science does exist about such debates. Here, I just want to forget every other possible resource which may help me oppose my friend, and give my mind a workout!
(I)
A friend, who seems to have had a good grasp of philosophy (at least as a student), posted something about Nietzsche and Plato, and the way they think of morality in the society, so to speak, "Priority of Nobles over Slaves". I asked him why and how he got convinced of such a thing, and he posted some explanation of the idea.
(II)
For the last 2 days, I was thinking of a new idea to write about. Um.... how is a simple discussion about the above subject? this post, and probably few later posts, will be dedicated to this matter. then, if you are eager to follow the debate, read his 2 posts before you continue: his 1st post, his 2nd post.
(III)
As you (and I) well know, too many philosophers and intellectuals have discussed such matters throughout history, and a very extensive body of science does exist about such debates. Here, I just want to forget every other possible resource which may help me oppose my friend, and give my mind a workout!
*****
I think that one may criticize your idea in 3 ways:
1- Behavioral approach: there are differences between humans and animals, with regards to their behaviors. Such differences make it necessary for them to have different order and rules in their societies.
2- Causal approach: why such moralities did happen to exist? How were they created? Was it just the claim of slaves, or even nobles might have some benefits in such a moral system? This may give us another hint. Yeah, throughout history, strong and weak people came to understand that they should agree on some rules for the society, because this trade-off would make more opportunities for each one.
3- Historical approach: this method may be somehow similar to what I propose in 2nd approach, but I prefer to pay a special attention to it. Suppose that right now, we remove any morality from the earth, and let each man/woman do what he/she can/please. Again, after a while, rationality of human kinds will lead them to agree on some basis/rules for the society, which can be called a Moral System.
1- Behavioral approach: there are differences between humans and animals, with regards to their behaviors. Such differences make it necessary for them to have different order and rules in their societies.
2- Causal approach: why such moralities did happen to exist? How were they created? Was it just the claim of slaves, or even nobles might have some benefits in such a moral system? This may give us another hint. Yeah, throughout history, strong and weak people came to understand that they should agree on some rules for the society, because this trade-off would make more opportunities for each one.
3- Historical approach: this method may be somehow similar to what I propose in 2nd approach, but I prefer to pay a special attention to it. Suppose that right now, we remove any morality from the earth, and let each man/woman do what he/she can/please. Again, after a while, rationality of human kinds will lead them to agree on some basis/rules for the society, which can be called a Moral System.
*****
Within those 3 approaches, I think the 3rd one is the strongest. But, in this post, I will follow the 1st approach, and just half of it: to show what those differences are.
*****
Let me begin with the very basis of your claim: "the law of nature". If we suppose that the Mother Nature is the sole source of inspiration, then one might ask why you do follow its rules just every other time? I mean, why do you get inspired by Mother Nature just when you find these natural rules conforming to your pre-determined theories, and leave them when they come to oppose your idea?
Do you want any example to show this flaw in your debate? Here is my example:
Deers would never ask Lions to follow 'Animal Rights'. Lions, when feeling hungry, go and kill one or more deers and, yeah, devour their flesh in a family party. On the other hand, you can hardly find a normal Lion which kills Deers just for it feels more powerful. You know, when Lions are full, they and Deers may go to the same lake/spring to drink water. I remember from those "Wild Life Shows" that in this case, Deers may even get close to Lions, for they know that just hungry Lions would attack them.
you may come with this idea that Lions don’t root Deers out, for they want Deers to still stay on the earth, reproduce, and provide Lions and their next generations with enough food.
Here I pose my main argument: Humans behave in a very different way than Animal. Many things and acts they (humans) do, just never would enter the mind of an Animal. For example, in Human's history, we can find too many events to show that when a man feels powerful, he may kill too many others just for his joy.
There are other things, which we can never find even one of them within animals: very often we see wealthy people who enjoy seeing poor sweating for just a piece of bread, and make it harder for them to get that piece of bread just to enjoy more.
Consider the rate of Suicides in every society. Is it something Normal & Natural, in accordance with the laws of Mother Nature? Do you know any other species in the earth which commits suicide when it comes to feel highly depressed? What causes some people to commit suicide? Isn’t it sometimes the behavior of more powerful people?
If you think that my clarification of the differences between humans and other species (I mean: in their behaviors) is still foggy, let me know, and I will try to make a better explanation, with more examples and evidences.
But if you approve of these differences, I will go a step further and try to say why such differences make me to believe that there should be differences between them in the context of social order and rules.
My semi-final-conclusion:
If People are naturally different from Animals (which I think it is so), then the rules governing each one's society should be different.
Do you want any example to show this flaw in your debate? Here is my example:
Deers would never ask Lions to follow 'Animal Rights'. Lions, when feeling hungry, go and kill one or more deers and, yeah, devour their flesh in a family party. On the other hand, you can hardly find a normal Lion which kills Deers just for it feels more powerful. You know, when Lions are full, they and Deers may go to the same lake/spring to drink water. I remember from those "Wild Life Shows" that in this case, Deers may even get close to Lions, for they know that just hungry Lions would attack them.
you may come with this idea that Lions don’t root Deers out, for they want Deers to still stay on the earth, reproduce, and provide Lions and their next generations with enough food.
Here I pose my main argument: Humans behave in a very different way than Animal. Many things and acts they (humans) do, just never would enter the mind of an Animal. For example, in Human's history, we can find too many events to show that when a man feels powerful, he may kill too many others just for his joy.
There are other things, which we can never find even one of them within animals: very often we see wealthy people who enjoy seeing poor sweating for just a piece of bread, and make it harder for them to get that piece of bread just to enjoy more.
Consider the rate of Suicides in every society. Is it something Normal & Natural, in accordance with the laws of Mother Nature? Do you know any other species in the earth which commits suicide when it comes to feel highly depressed? What causes some people to commit suicide? Isn’t it sometimes the behavior of more powerful people?
If you think that my clarification of the differences between humans and other species (I mean: in their behaviors) is still foggy, let me know, and I will try to make a better explanation, with more examples and evidences.
But if you approve of these differences, I will go a step further and try to say why such differences make me to believe that there should be differences between them in the context of social order and rules.
My semi-final-conclusion:
If People are naturally different from Animals (which I think it is so), then the rules governing each one's society should be different.
3 comments:
Dear Mohammad:
I've updated with an answer to your post and countinuing the debate.
Regards,
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